Who We Are: #2 Purity of Essence

I’ve talked about this a bit before, but this point comes up repeatedly in Reich’s book, and it needs to be made clear.

Again and again he says that races aren’t ‘pure’ – and he’s right. They’re the product of various mixtures of earlier populations, some such mixtures going back as 50,000 years [and farther] (when some peoples picked up genes from Neanderthals and Denisovans) to more recent examples like the formation of northern Europeans – a mixture of the Mesolithic hunter-gatherers, Anatolian farmers, and fresh-off-the steppe Yamnaya pastoralists. That plus continuing natural selection, that gradually made northern Europeans paler and more lactose tolerant. And turned their brown eyes blue.

10,000 years ago, there was no population, even early risers, that looked like and was genetically very similar to the modern Dutch.

Operationally, how is that different from a situation in which Europeans had been living in the same place for eons? Answer: there isn’t any difference.

If that formation process had happened 100 years ago, there would be differences. Suppose you mixed Chinese and Slovaks, 50-50, back in 1900. You’d see some individuals today that look almost entirely Chinese, others that looked almost entirely Slovak. There would be a lot of within-group variation. But with more time, say a thousand years, the new group would become well-mixed – almost every individual would be close to 50-50. For almost every individual, close to half of the alleles affecting a highly polygenic trait like height would originate in the old Chinese population, close to half from the old Slovak population. Everyone would be drawing cards from the same deck.

Is 5,000 years long enough for thorough shuffling? Sure. So what’s the different between having been formed 5000 years ago and formation a million years ago? – there isn’t any.

Why does Reich think that ancient purity, or the lack of it, makes any practical difference? I don’t know. Maybe he thinks it’s emotionally important to other people. But if members of a group only 1200 years old are on average better at chess – they’re better at chess. Degree of antiquity doesn’t matter. if they’re well-mixed, they have a new flavor of their own.

Also, Reich says “Mixture is fundamental to who we are, and we need to embrace it, not deny that it occurred. ” Obviously denying admixture is silly – why would anyone deny reality? Other than every social scientist in the United States, that is. Every facet of reality should be acknowledged (it improves your odds) – but that in no way says that we should necessarily embrace it. I mean, death by malaria played a big role in shaping humanity – should we be Morris-dancing in honor of our Lord Anopheles?

Mixture can be a good thing [Kristin Kreuk], but it can also be a bad thing..

The arrival of the Yamnaya almost certainly resulted in lots of dead EEF men (the previously common Y lineages are almost gone today) and the kidnapping and rape of the younger, prettier EEF women. If one of those men on the losing side didn’t quite see the big picture (eventually resulting in you and me) and did his level best to stop ‘mixture’ in its bloody tracks, I for one can understand his point of view. How was he better from the invaders? ” Because we live here.”

Reich says this, and things like this, apparently because he’s trying to curry favor with current-year liberalism, whose most fervent tenet is that Europe just has to import as many dumb, hostile people as possible. Rather weird – you don’t normally think of endorsing a bloody Völkerwanderung as a way of proving you’re really PC at heart – but it’s year 2018!

Maybe he actually believes this too, but I don’t see a lot of Somalis working in his lab. “Belief” – it’s complicated.

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115 Responses to Who We Are: #2 Purity of Essence

  1. Jacob says:

    Yeah, the takeaway from these data is that populations which gain power over one another typically wipe the other out, violently or by simply outgrowing them.

    I like your assessment on the actress. I have a half-Iranian friend who says it’s hard for him to be against admixture because he’s mixed. My rejoinder:

    “A peanut butter and jelly sandwich is not comparable to a peanut butter and dogshit sandwich.”

  2. pyrrhus says:

    Reich’s nonsense about embracing your replacements reminds me of the yard signs we see now that proclaim we love our neighbors “no matter who they are or where they came from”, etc.
    No, if they are going to declare sharia law, act violently, rape local children, or play loud music at inappropriate times, I don’t love them and I’m going to call the Sheriff….

    • The Monster from Polaris says:

      And what will the sheriff do? Maybe nothing, he may be afraid of being called a racist. Consider Rotherham.
      Or he might run you in for racism. (Depends on where you live, I suppose – and when.)

    • Jason says:

      I doubt Reich believes even one iota of what he said there, but he had to say it.
      He realizes that this line of inquiry is threatening to our bien pensant betters. If he didn’t first signal heavily to them, they would brand him a heretic, declare his work anathema, and have him defunded.

      • dearieme says:

        “I don’t see a lot of Somalis working in his lab. ”

        Do as I say, not as I do. Put otherwise, revealed preference often differs from proclaimed preference.

    • arch1 says:

      Would you be ok if the sign said “you are our neighbors and who you are or where you are from does not affect how much we love you”?

  3. tim hadselon says:

    How fast did the “transition” happened when the Yamnaya rolled in? I mean, was it truly rape, pillage and kill in a short period of time, or was it a slower process of outcompeting the locals?

    What do we name what happened in Latin America after Cortez? Is that a rape/pillage/kill model on the part of the Spanish? Because while there was some of that, there was also a lot of honest education, care-taking, etc, that still favored the Spanish males in reproduction.

    • gcochran9 says:

      I think that the dominant story was ongoing population collapse from Old World diseases, with Spaniards and part-Spaniards showing much greater resistance. There are still a lot of amerindian Y-chromosomes in Mexico.

      Being on the top of the social ladder probably helped some, but with that population collapse, there was plenty of farmland ( per head) for a long time.

      With the Yamnaya I’ll bet more on massacre. EEF mtDNA survived much more than EEF Y-chromosomes: the frequency of some of the previously common Y-chromosomes haplotypes greatly decreased..

      • syonredux says:

        “Being on the top of the social ladder probably helped some,”

        Indeed. When it came to Amerind women, Iberian males had a lot of opportunities in the 16th century Americas.There was a good deal of concubinage and de facto polygyny (the Church looked the other way.

        • Hugh Mann says:

          In A. F. Tschiffely’s description of his horseback ride from Buenos Aires to New York in the 1920s, he says the police in rural areas could (and did) do what they liked with the local Indian women. Arresting a husband or parent then demanding payment in kind for their release, that sort of thing.

    • Dave Pinsen says:

      How did the ratio of Spanish/Portuguese to locals in Latin America compare with the ratio of Yamnaya to EEFs?

  4. Henry Scrope says:

    ‘But if members of a group only 1200 years old are on average better at chess –’ yes that what Reich is playing, it ain’t science.

  5. ogunsiron says:

    It’s so weird to state that because a given population is the result of mixture, even violent mixture, it has no reason to oppose future violent mixture. I’m sure Mexican mestizos have mostly made peace with the very violent way their soon to be stabilized race came into being. Does this mean Mexican mestizos should welcome another brutal and bloody iberian invasion, because, hey it happened before so why not ?
    European Whites are a 6000yo mixture between races of that time that were distinct in significant ways. That mixture was probably violent and tragic. Fine. It’s done now. Doesn’t mean Europeans should welcome the 150M Nigerians and Ivorians who want to move in next year.

  6. 415 reasons says:

    Fans of the NFL will recognize a similarity with Reich’s disinterest in which populations will be present in the future and their own emotions watching the playoffs. Teams come together, compete on the gridiron field of simulated battle, and only one victorious team moves on. But of course no one can remember who wins any of the games nor much do they care.

  7. Anonymous says:

    I see your Kristin Kreuk and raise you Michelle Branch.

  8. PhilippeO says:

    Well, There are difference between stopping ‘violence’ and stopping ‘admixture’. some EEF chief might invite some Yamnaya as his warrior, some EEF woman might find Yamnaya handsome, someone stopping admixture would oppose such scenario, just like European right-wing oppose invited immigrants.

  9. Bob says:

    Presumably Reich has paternal Neolithic farmer ancestry. Maybe he’s expressing a genetic memory for revenge against Yamnaya descendents.

  10. Thanks for your typically clear exposition. I think the “ancient peoples have lived here for ever” trope is based on an observation regarding a very much shorter timescale, namely that if we move to a new neighbourhood we have some respect for those who have lived there for a generation or two. We see them as having established some legitimacy when talking about local flooding, or pests, or weather, or the history of the house in which we live. This may be a very English thing, since the villages that were in Domesday feel themselves a cut above more recent settlements. However, this is all, as you explain a matter of generations. Shall we put some figures on it? 16 generations would make a difference, given harsh selection (in say four centuries). Twice that should settle the issue should it not, when determining who was a genetic newcomer, to be embraced or politely encouraged to go elsewhere?

  11. SlushFundPuppie says:

    “Mixture is fundamental to who we are, and we need to embrace it”

    My fellow Europeans, we need to embrace mixture.

  12. Maciano says:

    Reich must have sometime made the connection between genes, civilization and Western success. Why would you encourage the destruction of one of the few places on earth that actually can get something done in this world? This isn’t a game anymore. The stakes are high. If you bring down Europe, the US etc. it’s over. Over.

    I’m starting to look at totalitarian pseudocomunnist China eclipsing the West as a best-case scenario for the world. At least they’re capable and appreciating of science and can bring humanity forward, albeit much slower.

    • Greying Wanderer says:

      what if the same thing happens to them?

      it’s in the long term interests of both the global north and global south that the global north survives to spread their advantages southwards rather than importing disadvantages until the point where we all starve.

      • Toddy Cat says:

        My tendency is to say that the Chinese are too smart for that, but they embraced Maoism, so anything is possible.

      • Rosenmops says:

        The Western countries have (or had until recently) high trust, low corruption cultures, People from low trust, high corruption cultures are rapidly pouring in.

        If the whole world becomes a corrupt hell hole, it won’t matter how smart people are. People in eastern Europe and Russia probably have the same average IQ as people from north west Europe, but their countries are poor and corrupt. Russia is one of the most corrupt countries in the world. Putin is like a crime boss. China isn’t much better.

        The city of Vancouver is experiencing major problems because of corrupt Chinese investors and immigrants. Sure they are smart–smart at finding ways to pay no Canadian tax while taking advantages of everything Canada offers. I am skeptical of any science that comes out of China because there is so much fraud and corruption at every level of education. Meanwhile The University of British Columbia has been taken over by Chinese.

        Look at the map at Transparency International:
        https://www.transparency.org/news/feature/corruption_perceptions_index_2017

        The only non-Western places with low corruption are Hong Kong and Singapore, which perhaps shows that 100 years of British colonialism and a high IQ native population can work out alright. But these are just cities, not real countries.

        The West is like a low corruption lifeboat in a sea of tribalism and high corruption. If the lifeboat is swamped it will be a disaster for us all. But the tribal, corrupt people insist the reason the West is more successful is because of their evil colonialism, and demand to be let into the West. They don’t understand that it is their own culture (and in some cases, low average IQ) that is the source of their misery. They think they can move to the West and not change their corrupt, tribal ways. But it won’t work. It will just make the West as miserable as the countries they left.

    • mtkennedy21 says:

      I am seeing a lot of Chinese emigrating to California and many young Chinese kids joining the US Army to get citizenship in a program for legal aliens. Maybe they know something.

  13. GH47 says:

    It’s the word “purity” that he despises any notion of, for, uh, personal/historical reasons that he wants to kill. But the individual distinctive unique formative history of a group does the same work.

  14. Ryan Baldini says:

    Exponential decay of linkage disequilibrium. Good stuff.

    I try to explain to my coworker that the offspring of labradoodles (ie hybrids of labradors and poodles) would show lots of variation despite the uniformity of the parents. Not a pure breeding type. Doesn’t seem to stick though.

  15. GH47 says:

    There’s also the complication that the UN Convention on genocide contains:
    (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
    (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
    It could be argued that “mixture” destroys a group and creates another, that importing massive of numbers of members of another group is deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction, and prevents births of children within the group.

  16. The Z Blog says:

    My observation is that members of the One True Faith have an emotional timeline. Events in the past that confirm tenets of the faith loom large and feel like they happened yesterday. Events that contradict the faith are unimportant and are talked about as if they happened a million years ago. It’s why American Progressive can’t shut up about the Civil Rights Movement, despite the fact it happened three generations ago.

    To understand the Left’s emotional relationship with “mixing” just put on commercial television for an hour. It appears that it is mandatory to feature nothing but mixed race couples in advertisements. Miscegenation is an all-consuming obsession with them. That’s probably why they insist that mixing in the past happened last week. It just feels right to them.

  17. dearieme says:

    If Reich gives a reader good reason to doubt the author’s integrity on this sort of issue, why should the reader trust his integrity in his lab work?

    • Ivan says:

      That’s what bothers me greatly too.

      Does writing a scumbag op-ed in the NYT (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/23/opinion/sunday/genetics-race.html ) puts in doubt the research he does ? I don’t know.

      One might argue that for example the Russian Nobelists in physics (Cherenkov and Basov) did sign a letter to the NYT, sorry Pravda, condemning Sakharov for his political views in 1973, but their scientific work was sound regardless of their being scumbags when signing the letter.

      In this case, however, Reich is attacking scientific research itself on the Pravda pages instead of engaging in a substantive discussion with people he disagrees with in a scientific publication/forum. The similarity here is more like Lysenko vs Vavilov rather than Basov vs. Sakharov.

    • syonredux says:

      “If Reich gives a reader good reason to doubt the author’s integrity on this sort of issue, why should the reader trust his integrity in his lab work?”

      Good question. I suppose that one factor in favor of the integrity of his lab work is the fact that he seems to be rather disturbed by his results (all that evidence in favor of traditional racial groupings, etc).

      • dearieme says:

        Agreed. His response to learning facts that he was prejudiced against shows him to be a twerp and a scoundrel, and yet he may run his lab more or less honestly. For the time being, at least: he doesn’t sound like a man likely to resist pressure.

  18. Ilya says:

    Friends, feel free to read Reich’s book via Library Genesis:

    http://gen.lib.rus.ec/search.php?req=Who+we+are+and+how+we+got+here&lg_topic=libgen&open=0&view=simple&res=25&phrase=0&column=def

    Use Calibre to convert from epub to Kindle-compatible mobi.

  19. Calvin X Hobbes says:

    My reading of Reich’s NYT article is that his only objection to the lies of “well-meaning people who deny the possibility of substantial biological differences among human populations” (e.g. Gould and Lewontin and the fools who were bamboozled by them) is that those lies are no longer defensible with obfuscation and intimidation. Reich thinks that such “well-meaning people” should get ahead of the curve and construct a new narrative that, while also crazy, is still defensible with lies and intimidation.

    Maybe Reich has not noticed that some people get very mad when they notice that someone is peeing on their feet.

    • Toddy Cat says:

      If there’s one thing Stephen Jay Gould and Leon Kamin were NOT, it was “well-meaning”.

      • Jacob says:

        Claiming that a liar is honestly mistaken takes the reader one further layer away from the truth of the matter. Just one more move in the great cup shuffle game of any deception campaign.

      • Calvin Hobbes says:

        The “well-meaning people” was quoting Reich’s NYT article.
        I agree that it’s ridiculous to call Gould and Kamin “well-meaning”. Thoroughly nasty characters.

  20. John Bull says:

    ‘Morris dancing in honor of our Lord Anopheles’.

    Ha.

  21. Space Ghost says:

    Hopefully somewhat on-topic…can someone explain to me what the Basques are? Are they just Mesolithic hunter-gatherers + Early European Farmers, without much or any Yamnaya/Indo-European “migration”?

    • Name says:

      Basques have Yamnaya too, probably indirectly acquired throughout the ages, not by the conquering movement.
      Iberians were the least affected by the Yamnaya/Beaker wave, and they had even less of such ancestry by the Roman times than they have today.

    • DataExplorer says:

      The Basques have the highest levels of R1b in the world. An article on Eupedia suggests that they must be descended from a very early group of Indo-European adventurers that crossed into Iberia, took local wives and then adopted the languages of their wives. Then there would have been a breeding bias in their favour.

      An alternative explanation is that they raped the Basque women and then left, and then there was an even stronger breeding bias in favour of these new barstard sons.

  22. hughjonesd says:

    I enjoy your blog and loved your book, but “Europe just has to import as many dumb, hostile people as possible” is silly and offensive. I think immigration should be limited, but there is more to the pro-immigration POV than that. And, FWIW, the average immigrant to the UK is very likely smarter than the average native – and I have the polygenic score data to prove this.

    • gcochran9 says:

      Well, I noted that more young Pakis were joining Isis than were joining the British Army, and that sounded bad to me.

      But, sure, give us the stats.

      • hughjonesd says:

        … and don’t call people Pakis. The best assumption I can make about this is that you don’t realise it is offensive. I assume you wouldn’t call black people “niggers”. Jeez.

        • gcochran9 says:

          I meant Pakistani immigrants, and from everything I can see, they’re bad news.

          And I’ll say anything I damn well please.

          • hughjonesd says:

            Of course you can say what you want, but I assume you don’t want to be judged as a racist whose views are driven by hatred.

            As for immigrants from Pakistan, “they are bad news” is too simple. That group includes my best friend’s Dad, who has taught English to more than a generation of Suffolk schoolchildren. Yes, it also includes some suicide bombers. My objection to your original comment still stands.

            • gcochran9 says:

              It’s a good thing that there aren’t any (many?) active worshipers of Huitzilopochtli for you to import.

            • Misdreavus says:

              Unlike in your shithole fog country, people cannot be arrested here for saying things that offend your designated victim groups (or at least not yet). Cut that crap. Reality is racist. I can think of at least half a dozen countries that ought to be quarantined by everyone (not just the developed world), and Pakistan ranks near the top of my list. I can justify this notion with plenty of statistics — can you justify yours?

              Your Mirpuri Muslims are only over-represented in pedophile grooming gangs by 30,000 percentage points or so (not making this up), and on top of that, they seem to have an exquisite fondness for acid attacks and incendiary devices. I think offending their sensibilities ought to be the least among your priorities.

              Also, I hope your best friend’s Dad stays far away from any white, working class girls aged 8 to 16. You know, just in case.

          • gcochran9 says:

            I looked at an article in the Guardian explaining there were only 430 to 440 British Muslims currently fighting with ISIS – along with an unknown, smaller, but fair-sized number fighting with the Al-Nusra Front, formerly the Al-Qaeda local branch – vs a full 640 Muslims in the British Armed Forces. Perhaps 250 have returned. While Khalid Mahmood estimates that at least 1,500 Brits have been recruited by extremists fighting in Iraq and Syria over the last three years — more than double the number of Muslims currently serving in the U.K. military.

            If a group has comparable or greater enthusiasm for fighting for demented enemy assholes than for the country they live in – they’re bad news.

            Now if they could walk on water, or raise the dead, or successfully develop a unified field theory, it might be worth it, but I’m not seeing signs of any of those things.

            For a long time I have had the impression that people running England were soft in the head. I wish it were otherwise.

            • E. Olson says:

              The European natives are not producing enough offspring to keep the welfare state viable, so immigration is the official state answer to the problem. Of course if most of your immigrants lack education and skills, and end up on welfare and not paying taxes, it sort of defeats the argument, but stating such things is racist, as is stating the fact that most are culturally incompatible and refuse to assimilate. Islam = Peace don’t you know.

            • mtkennedy21 says:

              Labour knew very well what they were doing when they began this.

            • The_G_Man says:

              This is the key point. Once you factor in both ‘grooming gangs’ and Islamist violence, the good Pakis would have all have to be Mother Theresa types just for the whole group to break even. In reality, the good ones are just …. meh. The few intelligent ones usually get a professional grievance job, so they don’t count.

        • Borat says:

          People who don’t live in the UK don’t consider Paki offensive. I live in Australia and my Pakistani friend calls himself and his friends Pakis. Because in Australia it doesn’t have the sae British concoctions. The world isn’t the UK, and people outside the UK can say what they deem acceptable. Kapish?

    • catte says:

      lol you mean the national secondary school exams, the ones that are barely g-loaded?

    • ogunsiron says:

      There are advantages to the influx of smart people. There disadvantages, objective and even subjective, to the influx of foreign people. Do you think the native Brits are that much in need of foreign IQ that it’s worth importing large numbers of very capable foreigners who could be hostile ? Of course there are non-British groups whose “human capital” is higher than the avg human capital in the UK itself. But so what, if the natives themselves are adequate ? Malawi is in desperate need of high IQ influx. The UK ? Not so obvious.

    • Rosenmops says:

      Even if some of the immigrants are smart they are still a vastly different and hostile culture. They come from a corrupt, tribal cultures and they bring those cultures with them.

      I recently watched some episodes of the British show “Nightmare Tenants, Slum Landlords” https://www.netflix.com/ca/title/80224279

      England is well on its way to becoming a 3rd world country. So thankful my grandparents came to Canada (though Canada has its own problems).

    • Blink says:

      The “I know a nice immigrant so all immigrants are nice” argument is wearing thin. You should know of the possibly 1m young English and Sikh women deliberately targeted., groomed, raped and prostituted by an organised nationwide network of mostly (85%) Pakistani muslims. The network (of which about 300 are in prison now) is probably still 10 times that number, is still operating and is supported/ helped/ protected by community leaders, mullahs and family members. That’s before we get onto honour killings, intimidation of daughters to end education, forced marriages, FGM, acid attacks. Or we could talk about the the well acknowledged cottage industry of racial offence taking that used to drain the coffers of many a northern city’s budgets and I have on authority takes up vast amount of police time now. 25 years years ago I used listen to pakistani girls who had successfuly split from their families, trying to have a career say “why wont you help us?” meaning the British establishment. I used to say rather feebly “it will get better, fight your own battles”. It has got infinitely worse, because the numbers are higher and the confidence that their way is better is higher.

      • hughjonesd says:

        Luckily, I didn’t make that argument.

        • Ivan says:

          Unluckily, you did: “That group includes my best friend’s Dad, who has taught English”, but in a weaselly enough way to leave the escape hatch open. Of which you’ve made good use in due time.

          • hughjonesd says:

            No, I pointed out that there was variation. I don’t know how you can confuse that with claiming there is no variation, and I don’t know why you feel the need to call me “weaselly”. My argument is clear and simple. Let’s leave it there.

            • gcochran9 says:

              Every big human thing is a mix of good and bad, but that doesn’t that the net effect can’t be negative.

            • Nagy István says:

              You mentioned earlier that you have some data. Would you please provide us the distribution of rape/crime and education /IQ of pakistani ethnic group in UK comparing to the white britons?

              • hughjonesd says:

                I don’t have crime or (useful) education data – for that, see the relevant UK statistics agencies, or the migration observatory. I do have polygenic score data for educational attainment, based on Okbay (2016). Using scores normalized to mean 0, variance 1. Immigrants from Pakistan have a mean of 0.004 and the UK born have a mean of -0.009, which is not significantly nor substantively different.

                There are numerous issues with the data. In particular, the sample is selected, and we don’t know that educational attainment polygenic scores are equally predictive in UK-born and Pakistan-born samples. I put this here with some trepidation, since frankly I found the comments section pretty depressing (on average, of course) in its bigotry, stupidity and foaming-at-the-mouth looniness. I hope that this null result at least suggests to some people that not everything fits neatly into their preconceptions. But I don’t hope much.

              • hughjonesd says:

                A more serious problem I didn’t mention in my previous post: the polygenic scores I used had the top principal components of the genetic data regressed out. Since the purpose of this is to control for population stratification, it arguably makes the scores pretty useless for measuring differences between ethnic groups. So I reran the same test without the PCAs regressed out. There is now a difference of 0.22 of a standard deviation, highly significant, in favour of UK natives.

                Doing this leaves us open to potential critiques along “gene for chopsticks” lines – which is why people regress out the PCAs in the first place. A better approach would be probably to use only the top genome-wide significant hits for educational attainment. But in my data at the moment we only have those for white people from Pakistan.

                I’m gonna leave it at that. I don’t want to deal with people abusing me or my friends’ parents. What I find ironic is that I consider myself basically a right wing guy about this stuff. Here’s me saying there are probably substantively important genetic differences between ethnic groups: http://davidhughjones.blogspot.co.uk/2018/03/on-race.html . Here’s me attacking claims that Oxford is biased against black students: http://davidhughjones.blogspot.co.uk/2017/10/on-black-students-at-oxford.html . Here’s me defending populism and nationalism: http://davidhughjones.blogspot.co.uk/2016/06/is-populism-dumb.html . Here’s me pointing out the non-economic costs of migration: http://davidhughjones.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/whats-wrong-with-ukip.html . I have a copy of The Strange Death of Europe by my bedside. It’s quite good.

                But a long-standing task of the right wing – just as leftwingers must differentiate themselves from Stalinism – is to differentiate itself from plain racism, bigotry and hatred. The commenters here have crossed that line. They are racist, not in the sense of thinking about genetic differences or worrying about different cultures, but in the good old-fashioned sense: they stereotype the outgroup. They – including, shamelessly, Geoffrey Cochran himself – use abusive racial insults. They spread hatred.

                In short, you’re a bunch of mouth-breathing bigots, with whom no decent person should associate.

                On average, of course!

              • Blink says:

                Whether Mr Jones reads this or not I feel I have to answer at least for myself because again it seem like there are some hot buttons there. Words: They can be redefined and perhaps sometimes should be. The word paki was redefined as racially insulting in the UK by media and the left in the 80’s because verging on nazi groups used it as an intensifier and object of other rude words. The word Brit was redefined by Nationalists in Northern Island as term of abuse, hatred too I dont think the infantry men got very far with correcting the locals with “British or Briton please”. The word Paki was well in use for at least a decade later say in Australian news papers as as a short form of the Pakistan cricket team. OK so lets say over here we all know its a bad word. Over there that is not necessarily so. Perhaps over there there’s a big push to eliminate even the remaining fairly innocuous words like ‘indian’ ‘black’ ‘mixed’ because, well, no-one likes to be ‘other’. So I internally smarted when I read the word but he speaks his language and we ours. It was a small matter. I know what racism is as I received it by going out with girls from that community and boy did their males not like it. The question we must all face and get out head out of the sand is this. There are 40 Million or so people from Muslim developing world already taking steps to come to either USA, Germany or the UK and 100Million intending to take steps soon. Do we want to be dominated by the attitudes and values that this community with its thousands of differences to our successful, humane, equitable society will bring. Differences held together, nay encouraged, by a book defined by defining others as different and inferior and having less value than its believers. Because that is happening right now and its almost unstoppable unless things change rapidly. Mr Cochrane gives valuable insights that might turn some minds from the zombie state they are in. I have some experience of working in low IQ countries and though they don’t get the countries they deserve they certainly could not run the countries they want (a western standard) themselves. I wish to God they could work out a society that suits them and their capabilities rather than see the internationalists of Asia and the developed world offer them debt for shiny things.

              • gcochran9 says:

                It’s Gregory, not Geoffrey.

                Any label for a given ethnic group is eventually going to be associated with the actual characteristics of that group.

              • Rosenmops says:

                @HughJoned

                Commentators here are tired of having to walk on eggshells regarding these issues, so perhaps they express themselves too frankly in this anonymous forum.
                As a woman, I found the comments at this post:

                https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2018/02/28/general-knowledge/

                to be somewhat annoying and offensive. People make a lot of generalizations about women, and are not careful to say “on average”, which is important. I’m not sure how many females red this blog but I’m sure I’m not the only one. While reading the comments on the “General Knowledge” post I felt I had stumbled into an old boys’ club. I just avoided that post, and made no comments there.

            • crew says:

              You know you are really winning the argument when you label your opponents as:

              bigotry, stupidity and foaming-at-the-mouth looniness

        • Blink says:

          Well you did. Look I know you must want things to work out and we all do but from your (just guessing) ivory tower in one of the areas of the country least affected by this kind of immigration I think you owe it to yourself to take a good look at what is happening. Things are getting worse. In a decade at a not so sleepy English University town of 120,000 people I have seen (in the town) multiple honour killings brought to trial, multiple rape and grooming gangs (finally in court), knockout game on the streets (actual witness), multiple fraud against the welfare system (by wealthy so called businessmen) brought to trial, multiple drug gangs with the odd torture and intimidation of their debtors brought to trial. And although there are a smattering of Chinese and Natives involved or doing similar things the overwhelming majority are from one religious affiliation and even more overwhelmingly from one ethnic group that begins with P and ends in i, however you spell it.

          • Ivan says:

            I do not think any sort of fact based rational discussion is possible with a person who uses the usual progressive labels, “bigotry, stupidity and foaming-at-the-mouth looniness” regarding the facts than contradict his/her religious beliefs.

          • aryaavarta says:

            Honor killings and not letting females breed outside the tribe make perfect sense to any non suicidal culture. Have fun being genocided for your niceness!

            • aryaavarta says:

              Just to add your aversion to anything which limits female mate selection has a lot more to do with Christianity pushing this in its early history than you think.

              Your crypto Calvinist liberal values as well

              Mosmaiorum.org/persecution_list.html

      • aryaavarta says:

        Break free of what?

        The biological function of a woman is to reproduce, not join the shekel race.

        Even though I hate Pakistanis far more than you can imagine, it’s thinking like that indicates you deserved everything that’s happening to you & the African horde that’s coming.

  23. Calvin Hobbes says:

    Reich has another NYT article today related to his book, answering reader questions.

    He claims that differences in population averages are “slight”, “very modest”, “small”, “have trivial predictive power”.

    And though a few stereotypes will be validated by genetics, it’s certain that the great majority will be disproved.

    So, more PC baloney.

    • gcochran9 says:

      He’s lying and/or ignorant.

    • Ivan says:

      Lewontin upgraded model II, he is, it seems. Disappointing but not entirely unexpected.

      He does seem to be a genuine proggy believer. Not that it matters.

    • Philip Neal says:

      I have not yet read Reich’s book or seen a copy even in the largest bookshops, as we are still at the stage where advance copies are distributed for reviewers to read so that the educated public can discuss it knowledgeably without needing to do so themselves. Does he actually want to be widely read at all? Quite possibly not. The real aim may well be to neutralise the impact of forthcoming discoveries by creating the impression that nothing has changed. Racial profiling in medicine? IQ genes? “Nativists and ‘scientific’ racists can take no comfort… We have always known… As genomicist David Reich has said…” He has the potential to be the new Chomsky, the great scientist who there is no need to read. What, haven’t you heard of David Reich, author of the difficult, heavyweight Who We Are and How We Got Here, the pathbreaking work on genomics which proved the inessential nature of human differences?

    • magusjanus says:

      he’s a Harvard physics major, he’s not dumb, and based off how he wrote this stuff it’s pretty freagin obvious he knows the score. I’m ok with some incense waving to keep the prog hordes at bay, but throwing others under the bus as he does is not how real men act, and the swipe at Harpending in particular really bugged me.

      Whatever. I’m deriving great pleasure in seeing the progs come at him despite his attempt at throwing others at them. I hope they tear him to pieces, thus further showing the insanity of the current academic/media paradigm and hopefully furthering its eventual demise, and with the added bonus of destroying Reich the lying coward while at it.

      • Ivan says:

        “he’s a Harvard physics major, he’s not dumb”

        I wrote not once so I may be repeating myself that there is a possibility of someone truly believing the nonsense one espouses regardless of one’s ability to manipulate complex abstract structures and patterns, i.e. regardless of one’s IQ.

        E.g. one of my close relatives who works in quantitative finance and naturally has a very good grasp of probabilities and statistics does not believe that his own mental abilities were a result of natural selection, refuses to read Falconer, or any other book on quantitative genetics (which would have been an easy read for him). For him, population differences are social constructs, and human population differences analogy to dog breeds is offensive (his response is “people are not dogs or cows” and the discussion stops right there). He literally believes that a crowd of AMHs marched out of Africa 50K years ago possessing as much ability for doing calculus as he does (“calculus simply was not discovered yet, and the idea is so simple that everyone kind of knew it then”). Reich’s book part two will He is a nice and kind person, but it is pretty hard to discuss pretty much anything deviating from his progressive beliefs one iota. So, we talk about weather, mortgage backed securities, likelihood of the current real estate market meltdown, putting a new patio, anything non-religious we manage to come up with.

        So, there is a possibility that Reich is a true believer, not a mere scoundrel, and his throwing nice people to the wolves is a righteous act of destroying evil racism, sort of like purging “enemies of the people” in the Bolshevic Russia by truly believing commissars…

  24. There is a continuing desire to poke a stick in the eye of the supposed racists who want less, or even no immigration by imagining that they are obsessed with white racial purity. They think denting that proves…something or other. “Ha ha ha, Cheddar Man was dark! Southern whites have an average of 3% African blood! You’re not pure either!” I suppose there are some whiteness-obsessed folks out there, but I haven’t met any.

    Just one more straw man.

  25. Shropshire says:

    Greg, are you going to write a post responding to his criticism of your Ashkenazi Intelligence paper, that your argument is “almost certainly” contradicted by the evidence for “random bad luck”? How does that paper hold up, at this point?

  26. mapman says:

    “I don’t see a lot of Somalis working in his lab”

    I wondered about that and went looking. His lab is pretty sane-looking. No huge over-representation by East Asians or Jews or Indians like is commonly seen in large very successful academic labs.

    And yes, he is smart. He’s got a whole enterprise there funded by US taxpayers designed around the idea of freeing his time from being involved in doing raw science. He’s got “Deputy Lab Head”, “Lab Director”, “Bioinformatics Director” and “Ancient DNA Project Manager” to direct and oversee the work done by stuff scientists, technicians, students and postdocs. Plus three “Scientific Associates” and one “Software Architect.” So the students + postdocs are only 30% of the lab’s personnel. Wow.

  27. RCB says:

    I’m going to repeat that all the argumentation about the “validity of race” and such is mostly a distraction.

    Find a predominately white high school. Separate the students taking the AP classes from everyone else. You have formed two groups with no consideration of ancestry. Very likely that you will have split up at least one sibling pair, for example. But these groups have very different means in IQ, and a large component of that difference will be genetic.

    So even if it were true that race weren’t a valid concept, that you can find a person of a different race more related to you than within your race, blah blah blah, it wouldn’t matter to the question that underlies drives pretty much all of the debate: why do blacks have lower IQs than whites? (No one would be saying “race is a social construct” if every race had the same IQ. There’d be no need.)

    • mtkennedy21 says:

      “Very likely that you will have split up at least one sibling pair, for example. ”
      I can see that in my five kids.

    • Michel Rouzic says:

      It’s very simple, it doesn’t matter that we can find astute ways to demonstrate real racial differences when we’re dealing with people whose views aren’t shaped by observations but rather whose views shape their interpretations of what they observe. They have decided upstream of any observations that all races must be have the same potential and that therefore any observation that would deviate from that view must be caused by discrimination as to preserve the original view in the face of unfavourable facts. As in the teacher looked at the black kids funny without even realising it so they all dropped 10 IQ points, black mothers aren’t allowed to be engineers at the same rates as white men so that makes their babies have shrunken brains, their great great grandfather was born on a plantation which is why the kids are more interested in becoming an athlete than a mathlete, and so forth. In other words we’re dealing with people who aren’t prepared to accept reality no matter how you shove their noses into it, they must find a way, any excuse really, to get out of it.

  28. DataExplorer says:

    The group with the highest R1b paternal lineage in Europe are the Basques, who speak a pre-IndoEuropean language. Hiw do you think tgat came about?

  29. Pingback: This Week In Reaction (2018/04/01) - Social Matter

  30. DataExplorer says:

    Would it be a fair hypothesis that neither the Mesolithic hunter-gatherers nor the Anatolian farmers were very intelligent nor prone to developing civilization? Even the pre-Indo European civilizations of Europe (Minoans and Etruscans) were recent Bronze Age immigrants from Anatolia (J2 Hapolgroup), not Neolithic farmers.

    Also I notice that the Phoenicians colonized non Indo European areas (Iberia, Sardinia, North Africa), whereas the Greeks colonized Indo-European areas (Gaul, Italy, the Black Sea). Could it be that the two groups both settled where they had a natural affinity with the locals? Or maybe it was simply that the early Phoenicians were only interested in peaceful trade so they stayed clear of those aggressive Indo-Europeans, whereas the later Greek colonists were bellicose and brave enough to settle amongst Indo Europeans?

  31. Pingback: Whence Polarization? | POLITICS & PROSPERITY

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